April 25, 2022

New Show Analytics, NFTs, and How to Get Featured by Apple


In this episode, Dan Sanchez and Benji Block dive into:

  • Apple's new Analytics
  • iHeart Media adding NFTs
  • The launch of Snippet.fm
  • Club Member Highlight: Thought Leadership Leverage 
  • How long should your podcast be?
  • How do you get your podcast featured by Apple?
Transcript
WEBVTT 1 00:00:00.160 --> 00:00:04.960 Welcome back to another episode of MC Club. I'm joined with Benji block today 2 00:00:05.080 --> 00:00:09.359 and we're going to be covering industry news, podcast news that is relevant for 3 00:00:09.400 --> 00:00:14.320 be tob marketers, highlighting a member of my club and going through some frequently 4 00:00:14.439 --> 00:00:19.199 asked questions from the community at large. Let's break open some news and welcome 5 00:00:19.440 --> 00:00:22.719 to your first appearance on my club, enggy. Thanks Dan, it's great 6 00:00:22.760 --> 00:00:25.519 to be here. I love scrolling through the news. So much of it 7 00:00:25.600 --> 00:00:30.000 is just not relevant for bedb marketers, but here's three that I thought were 8 00:00:30.039 --> 00:00:36.840 worth talking about. Starting with the fact that apple podcasts connect has new analytics, 9 00:00:36.880 --> 00:00:39.240 and I think I announced this last time that they were doing this, 10 00:00:39.479 --> 00:00:42.799 but I actually had a chance to log in for the first time, go 11 00:00:42.840 --> 00:00:50.119 into my own podcast and be shocked my how few followers actually had podcast connect 12 00:00:50.119 --> 00:00:53.200 on applecom. Go check this out. If it was set up for you 13 00:00:53.240 --> 00:00:55.759 automatically, you need to go bug your host to get a log in for 14 00:00:55.840 --> 00:00:58.280 this. Otherwise, if you set this up and you know what the log 15 00:00:58.320 --> 00:01:00.920 INS is, probably connected to your apple account. But, Benjie, you 16 00:01:00.920 --> 00:01:03.040 have not checked it out for bedb growth yet. I have it. I'm 17 00:01:03.159 --> 00:01:07.560 very intrigued man, because bb grows been around a long time. Like what 18 00:01:07.640 --> 00:01:12.159 have we've been averaging for like downloads per episode? I will pull it up 19 00:01:12.159 --> 00:01:17.200 while you tell me what exactly you saw and then we can talk about what 20 00:01:17.239 --> 00:01:21.560 you think I'm going to see, because this will be I think it's awesome 21 00:01:21.719 --> 00:01:25.439 that they're choosing to do this. I've always had this issue because I listen 22 00:01:25.480 --> 00:01:30.239 to my podcast on spotify, but I want there to be like a source 23 00:01:30.280 --> 00:01:33.400 of truth and I think all of us is podcasters want that. It's something 24 00:01:33.439 --> 00:01:34.959 that I know our customers ask and I've been asked a lot, like Oh, 25 00:01:34.959 --> 00:01:38.280 how many subscribers do we have, which we now call followers, because 26 00:01:38.760 --> 00:01:44.840 subscribers and apple now mean a paid subscriber. So if you follow a show, 27 00:01:44.920 --> 00:01:47.719 that's technically what we used to think of. A subscriber. Now used 28 00:01:47.760 --> 00:01:49.799 to be a mystery. Used to never know what that was. You could 29 00:01:49.879 --> 00:01:53.400 guess, like how many downloads did you get in the first forty eight hours 30 00:01:53.400 --> 00:01:57.640 and you're like, uh, that's probably the amount of subscribers. If I 31 00:01:57.640 --> 00:02:01.159 get a hundred downloads in the first twenty four hours and that's probably like a 32 00:02:01.239 --> 00:02:06.920 hundred people listening. Turns out it's not, because each download can be different 33 00:02:06.920 --> 00:02:08.560 and it can be different per device. So if they're downloading it on their 34 00:02:08.560 --> 00:02:13.639 desktop and then downloading it on their iphone, it's going to be different, 35 00:02:13.680 --> 00:02:15.840 and then across apps or it could be different and it doesn't even include what 36 00:02:15.879 --> 00:02:19.759 you gotta going on over on Youtube. So we don't know. Now this 37 00:02:19.840 --> 00:02:23.840 gives us the finally a little window into how many followers, committed people that 38 00:02:23.879 --> 00:02:28.560 actually hit the I want to get this automatically downloaded every time the even gives 39 00:02:28.560 --> 00:02:34.039 you active followers. I was I just thought that was amazing because before we 40 00:02:34.039 --> 00:02:37.719 we used to like beg for this kind of information. What are they describing 41 00:02:37.759 --> 00:02:40.039 as an active follower? Dan, just someone that's listening episode, episode, 42 00:02:40.120 --> 00:02:44.039 or what does that look like? Sorry, let me rephrase that. It's 43 00:02:44.080 --> 00:02:50.680 actually engaged listener. So we have followers, listeners, engaged listeners, and 44 00:02:50.960 --> 00:02:54.159 plays, I think are equivalent to the downloads. And I'm just reading off 45 00:02:54.159 --> 00:03:01.080 my report for the attention podcast and I have twenty followers. Hmm, two 46 00:03:01.199 --> 00:03:07.680 hundred and twenty eight plays, and this is over a see, I think 47 00:03:07.719 --> 00:03:12.800 at Thirty Thirty D R aeriod. Yeah, last thirty days I've had two 48 00:03:12.879 --> 00:03:15.879 hundred and twenty eight plays only twenty followers. So it's being downloaded for different 49 00:03:15.879 --> 00:03:21.400 times across different devices. I think it even counts as a new download if 50 00:03:21.439 --> 00:03:24.960 you download few came and listened like a couple days later and engaged listener, 51 00:03:25.120 --> 00:03:35.199 I believe, is someone who's actually like like, who's actually listened, who's 52 00:03:35.240 --> 00:03:38.520 a follower but has actually listened to one of your more recent episodes. So 53 00:03:38.560 --> 00:03:40.719 if there are a follower but they haven't listened in a long time, then 54 00:03:40.800 --> 00:03:46.000 that numbers always get to be smaller than your than your followers. Engage listeners 55 00:03:46.000 --> 00:03:51.039 are going to be smaller. Yeah, so through sounder. Right now, 56 00:03:51.080 --> 00:03:53.639 if I'm just looking at what our previous period as far as listens was, 57 00:03:53.840 --> 00:03:58.960 we're looking at twenty five to twenty seven thousand over the last couple months. 58 00:03:59.080 --> 00:04:02.520 And then streams is out two hundred and ten thousand. So again, those 59 00:04:02.599 --> 00:04:06.759 numbers are going to be all sorts of different and way lower in just like 60 00:04:06.840 --> 00:04:11.560 just my when I get my apple stats back. But that's the gage, 61 00:04:11.560 --> 00:04:15.240 one of the gages that we've been looking at consistently. If you haven't checked 62 00:04:15.280 --> 00:04:21.240 that out, I highly recommend go to podcasts connect dot applecom and look at 63 00:04:21.279 --> 00:04:25.279 these numbers. For Your own podcast. Yea, again, it doesn't account 64 00:04:25.279 --> 00:04:28.480 for spotify, doesn't account for all the other players, just apple. But 65 00:04:28.480 --> 00:04:31.560 for most BTB podcast apple still the main game. Even though spotify's taken the 66 00:04:31.600 --> 00:04:38.240 throne overall for podcast Apple, I've noticed, for us and all our customers, 67 00:04:38.279 --> 00:04:42.879 is still the primary place BEDB podcaster consume for some reason. So check 68 00:04:42.920 --> 00:04:45.480 that out, see which a ratio isn't start to track it. It's good 69 00:04:45.480 --> 00:04:47.600 to get a first snapshot but then track it over time. It's another data 70 00:04:47.680 --> 00:04:51.279 point that can use. You can use to guide your decisions. Second up 71 00:04:51.279 --> 00:04:59.240 in the news is iheart media has just announced a podcast network for nft characters 72 00:04:59.279 --> 00:05:02.399 and FT characters. One's interesting. And you want to give us the preface 73 00:05:02.439 --> 00:05:05.199 on what an nft even is, Ben G, real quick before we dive 74 00:05:05.199 --> 00:05:11.199 into I like how this is relevant for podcast sure. Yeah, so NFT's. 75 00:05:11.879 --> 00:05:15.600 We all think of them in different ways. None from nonfundable tokens. 76 00:05:15.680 --> 00:05:20.279 They represent right now in the culture, primarily art, right, and we're 77 00:05:20.319 --> 00:05:28.480 thinking about them as this way that specific, specifically wealthy people like want this 78 00:05:28.519 --> 00:05:32.399 asset. They prove that they have ownership of this thing and I think because 79 00:05:32.439 --> 00:05:36.800 it's been so tied to art. People have opinions from a distance and go 80 00:05:36.879 --> 00:05:41.279 this isn't something I'm interested in, but we're seeing it and this is a 81 00:05:41.319 --> 00:05:46.040 move towards that. Right with IHEART. It's coming into the mainstream and it's 82 00:05:46.040 --> 00:05:49.439 also going to move into different arenas that aren't just art. So from a 83 00:05:49.519 --> 00:05:55.199 high level, this is this was like this micro little thing off in the 84 00:05:55.199 --> 00:05:59.879 distance that people are curious about, and now it's slowly creeping into our our 85 00:06:00.160 --> 00:06:03.839 every day and into podcasting as well. I like to think about it as 86 00:06:03.959 --> 00:06:08.600 rights management. Right now it's very much dougal art. Right. It's not 87 00:06:08.680 --> 00:06:12.680 physical art, though some people are doing a hybrid between physical art. But 88 00:06:12.759 --> 00:06:15.759 if you have a Mona, a painting, then you're the right you. 89 00:06:15.800 --> 00:06:17.800 If you own it and you have the painting like you have it in your 90 00:06:17.800 --> 00:06:20.759 house, then you're the owner of it and you could probably have a certificate 91 00:06:21.160 --> 00:06:26.480 even that says this thing is legit. Think of that same certificate for a 92 00:06:26.480 --> 00:06:30.240 digital piece of art, a Jpeg. Essentially that says, Nope, Benji 93 00:06:30.480 --> 00:06:34.319 is the rightful owner of this jpeg. Somebody else might have a copy of 94 00:06:34.360 --> 00:06:38.399 it, but no, Benjie's the owner of it and it almost becomes this 95 00:06:38.480 --> 00:06:44.439 rights management thing that's managed through technology called Blockchain, and now it's getting incorporated 96 00:06:44.439 --> 00:06:46.639 into I heart media, VI, a podcast, because what a lot of 97 00:06:46.639 --> 00:06:50.360 people are doing are creating characters that are very popular and creating all kinds of 98 00:06:50.360 --> 00:06:56.160 interesting characters. And then there's like algorithms that can make characters from different characters, 99 00:06:56.199 --> 00:06:58.319 like you can almost, I don't know, in a way breed and 100 00:06:58.439 --> 00:07:00.639 FT's. Yeah, and that's a good way. So he creates a whole 101 00:07:00.680 --> 00:07:04.480 different piece of work out of the two come together, like they have like 102 00:07:04.560 --> 00:07:08.720 Crypto kitties, where you could bring two kitties together than Bam, they have 103 00:07:08.720 --> 00:07:11.360 a baby and now like the new kitties different, right, and you almost 104 00:07:11.360 --> 00:07:14.519 have genetics built into him, like they're that sophisticated in that the code and 105 00:07:14.560 --> 00:07:17.439 Algorithms, and there is right rights management where people can own them, because 106 00:07:17.480 --> 00:07:21.519 there's all these characters going. I heart media is not only investing in these 107 00:07:21.600 --> 00:07:27.480 characters and buying the rights to them, but now building backstories to them through 108 00:07:27.480 --> 00:07:31.639 podcasting, so in order to increase the the the value of these characters for 109 00:07:31.759 --> 00:07:36.480 monetary game. Yeah, interesting thing. It's a weird play, and this 110 00:07:36.519 --> 00:07:43.399 specifically because I see nfts as you had the early adopters, who were the 111 00:07:43.399 --> 00:07:46.560 ones that, again, I was watching from a distance, going, oh, 112 00:07:46.600 --> 00:07:48.839 they're doing something interesting over there, I'm not ready to jump in yet. 113 00:07:48.879 --> 00:07:53.319 And now I think we're past that a little bit. We are actually 114 00:07:53.319 --> 00:07:56.639 seeing, like the price of nft's drop quite a bit, which is usually 115 00:07:56.639 --> 00:08:01.000 what happens before it comes a little bit more mainstream and we start to realize 116 00:08:01.040 --> 00:08:05.920 all the other applications of something like this. So you're going to see it 117 00:08:05.920 --> 00:08:09.439 start to be used outside of just digital art, and that's where I get 118 00:08:09.480 --> 00:08:15.600 most excited for it. I hearts play here. To me is actually I 119 00:08:15.639 --> 00:08:20.519 can't think of other characters that have worked like this. Usually you'd create an 120 00:08:20.560 --> 00:08:26.639 asset like a movie, or there's some sort of character backstory and then story 121 00:08:26.759 --> 00:08:31.959 brand says yeah, think of Disney, like you go by the lunchbox after 122 00:08:31.000 --> 00:08:37.120 you saw the movie. You don't have this nft created and then you're thinking, 123 00:08:37.120 --> 00:08:39.360 oh, now we need to create a backstory for them at a show 124 00:08:39.399 --> 00:08:43.519 for them. And so I I'm all for it because there's a lot of 125 00:08:43.519 --> 00:08:52.279 creativity here. I just wonder what effectiveness it'll have because it's it seems a 126 00:08:52.279 --> 00:08:58.399 bit backwards to me, and this still seems a bit removed for Betob podcasters 127 00:08:58.440 --> 00:09:01.879 because it's very much to be out see yet lay that I hearts doing. 128 00:09:01.879 --> 00:09:05.000 So what does this mean for be to be podcasters? I'm bringing this up 129 00:09:05.039 --> 00:09:09.120 because there's always the people who get on things early. If you got on 130 00:09:09.120 --> 00:09:13.480 tick tock early and it was early for be to be, would have been 131 00:09:13.600 --> 00:09:16.639 like early fall of left for Tick Tock, and we are lucky enough to 132 00:09:16.639 --> 00:09:20.440 have a staff member with sweet fish that got on early to tick Tock and 133 00:09:20.480 --> 00:09:24.679 now she's on the forefront of thinking of tick tock and bb show out emily. 134 00:09:24.759 --> 00:09:28.120 This is one of those things that's coming for be to be and it's 135 00:09:28.120 --> 00:09:31.440 playing out in B Toc. So I'm just paying attention. When it becomes 136 00:09:31.440 --> 00:09:35.759 easier to create NFT's and building more utility, actually think this is going to 137 00:09:35.799 --> 00:09:37.840 be a big component of all communities. In fact, my club, this 138 00:09:37.919 --> 00:09:41.320 very club, I'm considering like how do I bring nft's into this so that 139 00:09:41.360 --> 00:09:46.039 people can track? I can almost manage the memberships through and ift's and you 140 00:09:46.039 --> 00:09:50.159 can actually buy rights like a ticket into mic club and then use that have 141 00:09:50.279 --> 00:09:54.919 unlocked for different things. Now the technology still it's there. It's even getting 142 00:09:54.960 --> 00:09:58.440 becoming more accessible, but not quite accessible enough for sweetfish to be able to 143 00:09:58.440 --> 00:10:01.919 manage we well, and it's probably not widespread enough that a lot of the 144 00:10:01.919 --> 00:10:05.759 people who would want to be members would even be able to access it or 145 00:10:05.799 --> 00:10:09.759 even be able to put a few like etherium into it to buy into something 146 00:10:09.759 --> 00:10:13.080 really small or resell it or whatever like that. So it's a little too 147 00:10:13.080 --> 00:10:16.480 early, but it's coming, guys, it's coming. So I'm just bring 148 00:10:16.480 --> 00:10:20.840 it up in the news because it's starting to cross into podcasting and it's very 149 00:10:20.879 --> 00:10:24.720 exciting for that reason. Coming up at the lastly in the news, snippet 150 00:10:24.840 --> 00:10:28.279 Doff F, slip snippet DOT FM has just launched and it is a short 151 00:10:28.279 --> 00:10:33.519 form podcast, minute as in twenty minutes are less. This is good, 152 00:10:33.519 --> 00:10:35.399 exciting news because it's a common question we get, is how long should a 153 00:10:35.399 --> 00:10:39.879 good podcast be, and I'm going to answer that question later in this podcast. 154 00:10:39.879 --> 00:10:46.679 But it's interesting to see a whole player essentially focus on just short podcast 155 00:10:46.000 --> 00:10:48.799 Benjie, you were excited about it. I think it's interesting. I'm reading 156 00:10:48.879 --> 00:10:52.639 right from their website here. It says snippet is the world's first short podcast 157 00:10:52.679 --> 00:10:58.759 platform. Our mission is to deliver meaningful content and unique original show concepts in 158 00:10:58.799 --> 00:11:01.519 a concise and powerful package under twenty minutes an episode. Okay. So they 159 00:11:01.519 --> 00:11:09.200 are also not talking about like repurposing other shows and making them shorter, which 160 00:11:09.240 --> 00:11:13.600 we've seen even I listen to my shows on spotify and on spotify they've done 161 00:11:13.639 --> 00:11:16.919 something like this, where they're just taking the best bit or the most listen 162 00:11:16.960 --> 00:11:20.240 to bit of that show and they're they're feeding it to you. They're also 163 00:11:20.360 --> 00:11:24.879 not speeding up the dialog, which they say that twenty six percent of podcast 164 00:11:24.919 --> 00:11:28.840 listeners do that. I listen to mine at one point two to one point 165 00:11:28.840 --> 00:11:33.279 five typically. So it's interesting here to go, okay, we're going to 166 00:11:33.279 --> 00:11:37.240 build our entire network of shows. We're going to go, it seems, 167 00:11:37.440 --> 00:11:43.639 highly produced under twenty that's their niche and to me, we'll talk about what 168 00:11:43.720 --> 00:11:46.720 are personal opinions are on length in a little bit, but this is a 169 00:11:46.799 --> 00:11:52.399 good play because you're picking exactly what to expect in a whole network of shows 170 00:11:52.399 --> 00:11:54.200 and you're going to hit a lot of people who are saying around twenty minutes 171 00:11:54.279 --> 00:11:56.919 is what they can do. I like the idea. I do. I 172 00:11:56.919 --> 00:12:01.600 don't know if I would base an entire thing off of just time, but 173 00:12:03.080 --> 00:12:05.600 they still you can do a lot with that and you can give creators the 174 00:12:05.639 --> 00:12:09.919 confines of something and then they go make them the best of it. Right, 175 00:12:11.200 --> 00:12:15.240 it's always good to have limits in some way. Yep, guard rate 176 00:12:15.360 --> 00:12:20.360 artistic expression comes when you add limits in some kind of fashion, whether it's 177 00:12:20.360 --> 00:12:24.000 just to d or just pencil, and you can if you go crazy and 178 00:12:24.039 --> 00:12:26.120 at all and have no constraints and there really like the art just doesn't. 179 00:12:26.159 --> 00:12:30.080 It's too complex and it becomes a mess, becomes chaos. So if you're 180 00:12:30.080 --> 00:12:33.840 already one that's already limiting your show to twenty minutes or less, then this 181 00:12:33.919 --> 00:12:37.320 is a great platform that you can now be found on. For me, 182 00:12:37.360 --> 00:12:39.360 I know my podcast range from five minutes all the way up to forty, 183 00:12:39.480 --> 00:12:43.360 forty, fifty minutes, because that's the route that I take and I try 184 00:12:43.399 --> 00:12:46.919 to bring limitations out of my show to bring more clarity and focus in different 185 00:12:46.960 --> 00:12:48.919 ways. But this is a great opportunity for anybody who has who want, 186 00:12:48.919 --> 00:12:54.200 you use time as a way to differentiate their show. There's a whole platform 187 00:12:54.240 --> 00:12:58.360 now dedicated to it. I do think time can vary, but I think 188 00:12:58.440 --> 00:13:03.200 you are so right on amateurs want the wide open spaces, and the more 189 00:13:03.240 --> 00:13:05.639 pro you get, the more you fall in love with the restriction. Like 190 00:13:07.039 --> 00:13:11.679 you, the longer you're in business, the more you realize the budget is 191 00:13:11.799 --> 00:13:15.759 something that allows us to be more creative, not less creative. Like you 192 00:13:15.799 --> 00:13:18.960 realize within a time constraint, if you've ever communicated on a stage before and 193 00:13:18.960 --> 00:13:22.960 they said you have a hard cut off at fifteen or at thirty, the 194 00:13:24.000 --> 00:13:28.360 way you create content for that actually allows your brain to be more creative, 195 00:13:28.519 --> 00:13:31.799 not less us. So I do find this really I don't know, just 196 00:13:31.919 --> 00:13:37.279 it's an interesting play and I think it would be fun. Yep, and 197 00:13:37.360 --> 00:13:41.559 it's true across mediums, across channels, just like a pro videographer will destroy 198 00:13:41.679 --> 00:13:46.799 you with a five year old iphone, then you could ever get with and 199 00:13:46.960 --> 00:13:52.159 with a red camera right. So that's just how it goes constraints. But 200 00:13:52.240 --> 00:13:54.559 let's get into highlighting the member of the week and I wanted to talk about 201 00:13:54.600 --> 00:14:00.159 a podcast called thought leadership leverage. It's a podcast that I've listened to many 202 00:14:00.159 --> 00:14:03.279 times, especially when I was diving into the topic of thought leadership. Let 203 00:14:03.320 --> 00:14:07.200 me highlight a few things that I really love about this podcast. I know 204 00:14:07.320 --> 00:14:11.720 one of the host, Bill Sherman, friend of mine, and I what 205 00:14:11.759 --> 00:14:15.279 I like about it is it's so focused, it's so niched on just one 206 00:14:15.279 --> 00:14:20.120 category of marketing and he uses this podcast one to explore new topics with the 207 00:14:20.159 --> 00:14:24.879 topic of thought leadership, exposing it's like thought leadership about thought leadership. So 208 00:14:24.919 --> 00:14:28.080 that works out. But he's also using it to build relationships with guests, 209 00:14:28.159 --> 00:14:31.799 people that are experts and thought leadership or heads if thought leadership in their their 210 00:14:31.879 --> 00:14:37.080 company, and other people that he could do business with across different businesses. 211 00:14:37.240 --> 00:14:41.000 So what I like about this is it's very rare that you can actually, 212 00:14:41.080 --> 00:14:45.720 like, have a show now se medics. It's thought leadership on thought leadership, 213 00:14:45.840 --> 00:14:48.919 have a show that's very specific about the topic you're an expert in, 214 00:14:48.320 --> 00:14:54.320 and use it to build strategic relationships with so many different companies. Usually it's 215 00:14:54.399 --> 00:14:58.080 one or the other. You use it to drive your methods and ideas about 216 00:14:58.120 --> 00:15:01.639 something or you use it to build relationships. Doing both can be really difficult, 217 00:15:01.639 --> 00:15:05.320 but he pulls it off well with his podcast. So you can go 218 00:15:05.360 --> 00:15:11.120 over to thought leadership leveragecom thought leadership podcast and take a look to see what 219 00:15:11.159 --> 00:15:15.639 I'm talking about, but it was worth pointing out. But moving on to 220 00:15:15.960 --> 00:15:18.639 questions and getting to the one that we mentioned briefly as we were talking about 221 00:15:18.679 --> 00:15:24.600 snippet was how long should a podcast be? Super Common Question. There are 222 00:15:24.639 --> 00:15:28.879 different theories about this. On Benjie, I'll let you lead with what what's 223 00:15:28.879 --> 00:15:31.799 your current thinking is on this, because I know there's a general idea around 224 00:15:31.799 --> 00:15:35.080 sweetfish, but not everybody at sweetish agrees on this one. Yeah, I 225 00:15:35.120 --> 00:15:39.120 don't think we should agree on it. I will give my opinion. Is 226 00:15:39.200 --> 00:15:43.480 Dependent on the category you're in. So if you're trying to teach something in 227 00:15:43.519 --> 00:15:48.200 a podcast form, I am a huge proponent of just trying to teach like 228 00:15:48.639 --> 00:15:54.159 one thing per episode, which means I think you can communicate that definitely, 229 00:15:54.759 --> 00:16:00.679 I would say in thirty minutes or less for that type of informative educational content, 230 00:16:00.759 --> 00:16:04.360 even if it's an interview. I think around thirty conversation starts to wane. 231 00:16:04.360 --> 00:16:10.960 Your questions aren't focused enough if you're going much over. But when it 232 00:16:10.960 --> 00:16:14.960 comes to time in general for podcast when I'm listening to inert and entertaining show 233 00:16:15.000 --> 00:16:19.279 Bill Simmons is sports podcaster that I listen to all time. He's going for 234 00:16:19.320 --> 00:16:22.879 a two hours and I don't care how long the episode is because I'm it's 235 00:16:23.080 --> 00:16:27.720 on in the background, but he's having engaging conversations and usually he doesn't talk 236 00:16:27.759 --> 00:16:32.399 to anyone for longer than forty five and then they'll do a little ad spot 237 00:16:32.399 --> 00:16:37.159 and onto a different person that he's talking to. You know why you are 238 00:16:37.279 --> 00:16:41.639 at the length you're at. It's going to inform everything else. If I 239 00:16:41.679 --> 00:16:45.879 wasn't creating content for be tob marketers, I might have a different length than 240 00:16:45.960 --> 00:16:51.080 around thirty minutes. So to me it's dependent on the category you're in. 241 00:16:51.279 --> 00:16:56.000 And then also you can tell in a conversation. Just imagine outside of podcasting, 242 00:16:56.080 --> 00:16:59.679 Dan and I are at lunch. You can tell when the conversation starting 243 00:16:59.720 --> 00:17:03.919 to wane and you're forcing it like you don't want to hit that point in 244 00:17:03.000 --> 00:17:06.720 a show where other people are listening. You're not at lunch. It's not 245 00:17:06.759 --> 00:17:11.039 just two people, this is something, this is content that you are creating. 246 00:17:11.119 --> 00:17:15.200 So that's the the key indicator for me is you can tell when someone's 247 00:17:15.200 --> 00:17:19.759 engaging engagement is starting to to be lost. Damn. What are your thoughts 248 00:17:19.759 --> 00:17:26.640 here? I've a few different like view advantage points or viewpoints on it. 249 00:17:26.680 --> 00:17:29.799 are a few different rules that I've hund two. One that I learned from 250 00:17:29.880 --> 00:17:33.920 James Carberry is that it can be as long as it's good. Exactly. 251 00:17:33.960 --> 00:17:36.880 Yep, like you were saying, don't stretch it on. If they only, 252 00:17:37.039 --> 00:17:40.000 if a guest only has ten minutes of content, why not sucker down, 253 00:17:40.039 --> 00:17:42.480 even if your other shows at thirty minutes, like we're done at ten 254 00:17:42.519 --> 00:17:45.400 minutes. That's all they have to say. It's good. Okay, wait, 255 00:17:45.519 --> 00:17:48.039 I got erupt you that I don't take the constraint. I don't. 256 00:17:48.240 --> 00:17:52.759 Let me also some for I'll have fellow episodes for five and some interviews that 257 00:17:52.799 --> 00:17:56.000 go as long as fifty or sixty minutes, if you're okay. But you 258 00:17:56.000 --> 00:17:57.039 were saying on the short ones. This is why I wanted to interrupt you, 259 00:17:57.079 --> 00:18:00.680 because you're saying on the short ones, if they only have ten minutes 260 00:18:00.720 --> 00:18:04.119 of content, do ten minutes of content for for all of us as hosts. 261 00:18:04.119 --> 00:18:07.839 We're going, okay, that's one thing to say that. It's another 262 00:18:07.880 --> 00:18:11.279 thing to be like ten minutes in and we're executing the outro, like, 263 00:18:11.559 --> 00:18:18.359 what does that look like? To to go with that short because to me 264 00:18:18.599 --> 00:18:21.880 unless you really preface it and say hey, if we get into it and 265 00:18:21.920 --> 00:18:26.359 we give away ten minutes, they're going to look at your shows and they're 266 00:18:26.359 --> 00:18:27.559 going to go oh, typically it's thirty minutes. So they're going to be 267 00:18:27.559 --> 00:18:32.319 trying to probably fill that or they're expecting that. And I've had a couple 268 00:18:32.400 --> 00:18:36.480 interviews where I'm like this could end short, like there's not a lot to 269 00:18:36.519 --> 00:18:40.799 be said here, but I'm guilty of stretching it out because I'm like the 270 00:18:40.799 --> 00:18:42.480 other episodes are this length. So how do you think about it? Or 271 00:18:42.519 --> 00:18:48.079 do a shorter show? One most guess asked how long the show should be. 272 00:18:48.200 --> 00:18:52.240 I tell you about half of the the guess I've done asked and then 273 00:18:52.279 --> 00:18:55.440 I always tell them, oh, we don't have a set length. It 274 00:18:55.480 --> 00:18:56.920 could be as short as ten minute or as long as sixty we can take 275 00:18:56.960 --> 00:19:00.000 the words time. We like that today. Yep, I like that way. 276 00:19:00.000 --> 00:19:03.599 They're like, okay, cool. And then to finish it, I 277 00:19:03.599 --> 00:19:06.640 generally ask. I usually I dropped clues and you can do that as a 278 00:19:06.640 --> 00:19:08.599 host. Be like man, this has been so good to learn all of 279 00:19:08.640 --> 00:19:14.759 this. To ask one last question. Then you ask the last question and 280 00:19:14.799 --> 00:19:17.680 then freaking move on. Then you wind it down after their answer. So 281 00:19:17.720 --> 00:19:19.640 you lie. I's what I usually queue it up with for my last quite, 282 00:19:19.680 --> 00:19:22.400 you thank them, ask last question and then you close. So that's 283 00:19:22.400 --> 00:19:26.319 how I do it. There's a few other things to consider. Some you 284 00:19:26.359 --> 00:19:30.839 can differentiate a show by length. So some people do it remarkably well, 285 00:19:30.839 --> 00:19:33.680 like one of my favorites is hardcore history Dan Carlin, not to be to 286 00:19:33.720 --> 00:19:40.160 be podcast, but freaking three to six hour long episodes and they're fantastic. 287 00:19:40.200 --> 00:19:42.480 But at that point it's like an audio book and them only releases two or 288 00:19:42.480 --> 00:19:45.400 three of those a year maybe. But Tim Ferriss hour and a half, 289 00:19:45.400 --> 00:19:51.039 two hours, some of his episodes homes. He's at three hours. Yep. 290 00:19:51.160 --> 00:19:55.720 Yeah, so there's and those are exceptions. Most podcast run between twenty 291 00:19:55.759 --> 00:19:57.960 and fifty minutes. For thirty and fifty minutes is normal. I think forty 292 00:19:57.960 --> 00:20:03.240 four minutes is the official most average time for podcast and again, channels have 293 00:20:03.359 --> 00:20:06.440 norms. So to go beyond that means you have to be really good. 294 00:20:06.519 --> 00:20:10.720 I also think that there's a skill set and how long you can go. 295 00:20:10.920 --> 00:20:15.400 If you're a really good host, you can generally get better content out longer, 296 00:20:15.519 --> 00:20:18.359 especially if you did no pre interview, no research and you just want 297 00:20:18.400 --> 00:20:22.160 to do like Joe Rogan Style and explore live in they so you don't know 298 00:20:22.200 --> 00:20:25.000 what you're getting into, but you have some questions prepared ahead of time. 299 00:20:25.039 --> 00:20:26.720 You just dive in and then just keep asking. Oh, tell me more, 300 00:20:26.759 --> 00:20:30.079 I'll tell me more, and let that episode go long in order to 301 00:20:30.079 --> 00:20:33.000 pull out the few nuggets for the Youtube clips. That's a way to go, 302 00:20:33.119 --> 00:20:34.200 but you have to be a better host to do that. If you 303 00:20:34.200 --> 00:20:38.200 want it to be really succinct, like a great fifteen minute episode, it 304 00:20:38.200 --> 00:20:41.039 takes more work up front, right. So where do you want the work 305 00:20:41.079 --> 00:20:45.680 to go? God, you want to have a really solid episode, that 306 00:20:45.680 --> 00:20:48.400 means you need to do more research. If you want to have a fantastic 307 00:20:48.440 --> 00:20:52.839 interview done so it can fit on snippet dot FM, you then you have 308 00:20:52.920 --> 00:20:55.799 to do the j a Kenzo thing and have the interview and spend more time 309 00:20:55.920 --> 00:20:59.119 editing or do more time up front tailoring your questions. But the work's going 310 00:20:59.119 --> 00:21:03.200 to be sent spent more outside of that interview, either on post production or 311 00:21:03.519 --> 00:21:07.319 preproduction or post production so that you can tighten it up to that right amount 312 00:21:07.319 --> 00:21:11.480 of length. So on lots of about it, but I like that there's 313 00:21:11.519 --> 00:21:15.319 options. It's nice. I do there's options. It's interesting as a communicator 314 00:21:15.400 --> 00:21:19.240 because if you're the only one talking right, if it's just a monolog style, 315 00:21:21.359 --> 00:21:25.640 you can if you have a time constraint of, let's say ten to 316 00:21:25.680 --> 00:21:29.559 fifteen minutes, you have to be an excellent communicator to get across what you 317 00:21:29.599 --> 00:21:32.880 want to get across in a shorter period of time. So you're thinking about 318 00:21:32.960 --> 00:21:38.640 every word when you're interviewing someone. What's complicated about it is one and in 319 00:21:38.720 --> 00:21:42.920 B tob no, I don't think people want a two hour Joe Rogan style 320 00:21:44.039 --> 00:21:47.519 interview. But what's helpful in that is if you don't know a lot about 321 00:21:47.559 --> 00:21:51.200 the person and you just keep throwing out questions, eventually they're going to say 322 00:21:51.240 --> 00:21:56.240 something good. So you have more opportunity for them to hit that gold in 323 00:21:56.319 --> 00:22:02.039 as in a short time constraint, if I have three or four questions that 324 00:22:02.079 --> 00:22:07.319 I think are gold but they don't deliver as a guest, then that episode 325 00:22:07.640 --> 00:22:11.720 is not great content. So it's this weird mix where I would love a 326 00:22:11.839 --> 00:22:15.720 short episode that's just hits the right thing, but I almost wonder if it 327 00:22:15.759 --> 00:22:21.920 takes recording a longer episode and then just doing what you said and trimming only 328 00:22:22.000 --> 00:22:26.200 the gold out of it. And that's, I think, in be to 329 00:22:26.240 --> 00:22:30.599 be podcasting is. It is a good play. Honestly, Yep, but 330 00:22:30.799 --> 00:22:33.400 the time, the time's got to come somewhere and it's going to come and 331 00:22:33.440 --> 00:22:37.480 either preproduction and post production, most likely a little bit of both, in 332 00:22:37.559 --> 00:22:41.279 order to get a really solid episode down to twenty minutes. And then it 333 00:22:41.279 --> 00:22:44.799 cost more to do it. But it can be worth it because it's more 334 00:22:44.880 --> 00:22:48.359 value in less time and we all appreciate that. And to wrap up with 335 00:22:48.440 --> 00:22:53.039 the last question, this is a quality not less common question, but I 336 00:22:53.039 --> 00:22:56.839 still get it pretty often, is how do you get featured in Apple podcast? 337 00:22:57.200 --> 00:23:02.759 Before I did not have a good answer. Finally Apple freaking published the 338 00:23:02.759 --> 00:23:04.359 answer and I was like, Oh, I've years too late for it. 339 00:23:04.440 --> 00:23:07.559 was like you pretty much have to have a massive marketing budget and get a 340 00:23:07.640 --> 00:23:12.480 thousand, thousands and tens of thousands of downloads. Now Apple has published the 341 00:23:12.519 --> 00:23:15.559 answer, so I always have an answer to this question. Now they actually 342 00:23:15.599 --> 00:23:22.079 have a official form you can submit with your podcast plan and everything that you're 343 00:23:22.160 --> 00:23:26.160 launching with your podcast. But a few things that I will say is that 344 00:23:26.279 --> 00:23:29.000 you generally do have to have a marketing plan. They want to see what 345 00:23:29.079 --> 00:23:30.440 you're marketing. What Your Pr Plan? Do you have owned audience? You 346 00:23:30.440 --> 00:23:33.559 got to put some dollars behind this. Not only does it have to be 347 00:23:33.599 --> 00:23:38.759 a really cool concept, slick cover, our really great title like it also, 348 00:23:38.960 --> 00:23:41.200 like a lot of things, have to be done well and it has 349 00:23:41.240 --> 00:23:45.000 to have a lot of money behind it so that it's worth promoting, because 350 00:23:45.000 --> 00:23:45.839 you're going to put a lot of effort in if they're going to put some 351 00:23:45.839 --> 00:23:49.200 effort into it. Also has to be timely, based on the market. 352 00:23:49.279 --> 00:23:52.799 Something going on in Ukraine and Russia. So if it's just in the news 353 00:23:52.839 --> 00:23:59.440 and you do political podcast that's on a current events and some of their first 354 00:23:59.440 --> 00:24:03.640 seasons on Russia, that's really timely. So all those factors consider but I 355 00:24:03.680 --> 00:24:07.240 almost want to preface at what. Think about it as like hitting like the 356 00:24:07.240 --> 00:24:11.039 New York Times best selling book list, because that's how you have to think 357 00:24:11.079 --> 00:24:12.680 about it, like you're going to put on a lot of effort but everything, 358 00:24:12.720 --> 00:24:15.599 the timing could be wrong and you had no way to control it. 359 00:24:15.640 --> 00:24:18.960 So it's almost like you have it's you really you can work for it. 360 00:24:18.960 --> 00:24:22.720 You could do all the work, but it's still like a shot that you 361 00:24:22.720 --> 00:24:26.200 just have to take because he only get one launch. When you're looking up 362 00:24:26.720 --> 00:24:33.400 how to do this, don't trust anything that was posted like over a year 363 00:24:33.400 --> 00:24:37.319 ago, because now we have some sort of source of truth from Apple, 364 00:24:37.799 --> 00:24:41.920 and I feel like before it was one if you're reading content that's five or 365 00:24:41.960 --> 00:24:45.920 six years old. It was so easy back then to get featured because they 366 00:24:45.960 --> 00:24:48.400 were just looking for it. I had a friend who didn't even try and 367 00:24:48.440 --> 00:24:52.240 got featured, so that to that, though. Those days are long gone. 368 00:24:52.359 --> 00:24:56.359 Now you can actually go through, they have tips and you can get 369 00:24:56.400 --> 00:25:00.799 an you could submit this form just for an episode. So you don't even 370 00:25:00.839 --> 00:25:03.720 have to have a new show. It could just be a specific episode, 371 00:25:03.759 --> 00:25:07.920 like using the Ukraine Russia, example, if you did an episode on how 372 00:25:07.960 --> 00:25:11.839 that whole situation is affecting business or something. You could actually go in and 373 00:25:11.839 --> 00:25:15.599 request this just for an episode that you think is timely and want and want 374 00:25:15.640 --> 00:25:18.640 to have it featured, but you need to have again, I catching art 375 00:25:18.720 --> 00:25:23.079 day and you you talked about that. Optimizing your episode title is something they're 376 00:25:23.119 --> 00:25:26.599 talking about timing right, which is the one we just hit on. So 377 00:25:26.839 --> 00:25:30.680 there's a lot there and then they just have literally be an Air table set 378 00:25:30.759 --> 00:25:36.079 up that you can go in and put all your info in and submit that. 379 00:25:36.160 --> 00:25:38.839 So to me, and it's helpful to just know what it takes. 380 00:25:38.839 --> 00:25:41.720 And then, if you're thinking about your content calendar, let's say for a 381 00:25:41.720 --> 00:25:45.640 whole year, maybe there's a couple times where you're like, these are specific 382 00:25:45.680 --> 00:25:51.319 things I would submit for instead of just only thinking about it at launch. 383 00:25:51.480 --> 00:25:56.119 Or I don't know that I've even fully thought about this in a long time 384 00:25:56.160 --> 00:25:59.599 because they didn't have anything around it, so I was like it's just not 385 00:25:59.599 --> 00:26:03.880 worth thinking about. So that's all we have for you today at my club. 386 00:26:03.920 --> 00:26:07.880 Thanks for joining us. If you have questions, go to join my 387 00:26:07.000 --> 00:26:11.279 clubcom there is a little icon that's always floating in the bottom right hand corner. 388 00:26:11.319 --> 00:26:15.200 Would love to get your questions. You could submit a little voice mail 389 00:26:15.279 --> 00:26:18.240 and we will feature it on the show and answer your question here in next 390 00:26:18.319 --> 00:26:22.079 week's episode. So again, see you next week. By everybody.