The Decline of Live Audio, Marketing Your Podcast, and Where to Find Guests

WEBVTT 1 00:00:10.320 --> 00:00:14.599 Hey friends send you here. Welcome into Mike Club, and today I am 2 00:00:14.640 --> 00:00:19.280 excited to be joined by Ryan Becker, producer here at sweet fish. Ryan, 3 00:00:19.280 --> 00:00:22.280 happy to have you with us. He Ben Jay, it's good to 4 00:00:22.280 --> 00:00:25.719 be here. I'm excited to talk about podcasting with you and hopefully provide some 5 00:00:25.760 --> 00:00:31.239 great value to the my club. Yes, passion of both of Ours podcasting 6 00:00:31.280 --> 00:00:36.200 and love might club as it exists. To just bring the news from this 7 00:00:36.240 --> 00:00:40.439 week. We'll do a member highlight. Coming up will answer a question from 8 00:00:40.439 --> 00:00:43.880 our MC club community. But before we get there, people like who is 9 00:00:43.960 --> 00:00:49.439 Ryan? So we got to start there. Give me your spark notes version 10 00:00:49.520 --> 00:00:53.200 of like how you got into podcasting. What makes you passionate about the work 11 00:00:53.200 --> 00:00:58.119 that you do? Yeah, so I got into podcasting back in two thousand 12 00:00:58.119 --> 00:01:03.719 and sixteen. I actually did it as a hobby and something to something to 13 00:01:03.799 --> 00:01:07.799 utilize, to have space for important conversations or conversations that were important to me 14 00:01:08.159 --> 00:01:11.799 and to connect with people. I was living at a at a time early 15 00:01:11.879 --> 00:01:15.040 in my career, I was living in a city where I didn't really have 16 00:01:15.040 --> 00:01:18.400 a lot of friends. I actually had some physical problems going on to that 17 00:01:18.480 --> 00:01:22.599 limited my ability to go out and so podcasting became a way for me to 18 00:01:22.599 --> 00:01:27.040 sustain connection with people and create connections. And from starting my own that quickly 19 00:01:27.079 --> 00:01:32.359 spiraled into as it often does, when your friends find out that you have 20 00:01:32.400 --> 00:01:34.200 a podcast, they now are like, well, I want to start one. 21 00:01:34.239 --> 00:01:38.400 I think I could do that too. Yep, and that actually that 22 00:01:38.519 --> 00:01:45.760 kept growing. That became sort of a natural growth or pathway of growth from 23 00:01:45.799 --> 00:01:49.840 me where I was. I started being invited to teach workshops, to seminars 24 00:01:49.840 --> 00:01:55.840 and help other people build a platform for themselves, and I became really excited 25 00:01:55.879 --> 00:02:00.079 about that. I love equipping and empowering people to to build a platform, 26 00:02:00.159 --> 00:02:06.359 to own their voice and to create something great. And so all of that, 27 00:02:07.400 --> 00:02:09.960 everything that I know is something that I've I've I've either learned through trial 28 00:02:10.039 --> 00:02:15.000 and error or through a ton of research myself, and it's great to have 29 00:02:15.000 --> 00:02:19.240 seen that knowledge and experience validated over the years too. And so I joined 30 00:02:19.240 --> 00:02:22.960 sweet fish late last year, in two thousand and twenty one, and and 31 00:02:23.080 --> 00:02:25.680 I've I've absolutely loved coming on board and working with the shows that I work 32 00:02:25.759 --> 00:02:30.159 with and now that I'm not buttering anyone up, I genuinely enjoy what I 33 00:02:30.199 --> 00:02:35.199 get to learn through the content that I work with and produce, and it's 34 00:02:35.240 --> 00:02:39.759 it's great to also support shows that I think often are making a really big 35 00:02:39.800 --> 00:02:45.080 difference and important impact in the world. Yep, and isn't that all of 36 00:02:45.080 --> 00:02:49.280 our goals, I know, for our audience listening like that's what you started 37 00:02:49.319 --> 00:02:51.439 your show for. You want to make an impact, you want to have 38 00:02:51.479 --> 00:02:54.759 conversations that matter, and so pulling in Ryan today is going to be fun 39 00:02:54.840 --> 00:02:59.840 to just get to cover what matters to us and how we can continue to 40 00:03:00.080 --> 00:03:02.639 our shows better. So with that, Ryan, thanks for being here. 41 00:03:02.719 --> 00:03:07.680 Let's dive into the news, and the first story I want to bring is 42 00:03:08.120 --> 00:03:10.919 the fact that clubhouse is on the decline, which I actually thought was kind 43 00:03:10.960 --> 00:03:15.680 of funny that this needed to be said, because I felt like this should 44 00:03:15.719 --> 00:03:19.240 have been said four or five months ago. It also, though, was 45 00:03:19.280 --> 00:03:23.919 interesting because it's tied into the fact that spotify, seemingly, you know, 46 00:03:23.960 --> 00:03:28.960 in the last few weeks as well, has decided they're going to pivot from 47 00:03:29.039 --> 00:03:34.319 a separate APP Green Room and go spotify live built into the same platform. 48 00:03:34.360 --> 00:03:37.800 I think that makes way more sense. But Ryan, I'd throw it to 49 00:03:37.840 --> 00:03:42.199 you here, like what is your thought around live audio and the fact that 50 00:03:42.439 --> 00:03:46.599 we're seeing it decline. was that expected in your mind or how have you 51 00:03:46.639 --> 00:03:52.120 thought about live audio? Yeah, I actually remember when clubhouse started kind of 52 00:03:52.159 --> 00:03:57.800 taking over the the Zekegeiston and everyone was talking about it. Then spotify was 53 00:03:57.879 --> 00:04:02.319 launching something, twitter spaces, all these different live, live areas were start 54 00:04:02.319 --> 00:04:06.439 are live spaces were existing, and I just the whole time people were asking 55 00:04:06.479 --> 00:04:10.520 me, do you think that podcast should feel threatened by this? Do you 56 00:04:10.560 --> 00:04:15.439 feel threatened by this? And simply put no, because I always thought that 57 00:04:15.519 --> 00:04:18.759 clubhouse would be on the decline. In this isn't like I know I saw 58 00:04:18.800 --> 00:04:23.680 it from the beginning, but rather there are just key differences in the experience 59 00:04:23.720 --> 00:04:28.040 that you have and even from my own experience with Clubhouse, there were often 60 00:04:28.120 --> 00:04:33.360 times where I miss something because it was a self contained experience and there's yes, 61 00:04:33.399 --> 00:04:38.839 there's El exclusivity to that, there's excitement to that, but there's also 62 00:04:38.959 --> 00:04:42.279 discouragement to that. When you miss it enough, you miss something enough, 63 00:04:42.399 --> 00:04:46.720 you you lose interest in trying. Nothing will ever beat the on demand access 64 00:04:46.720 --> 00:04:54.360 that something like podcasting gives you, and I it was very easy for me 65 00:04:54.439 --> 00:04:57.959 to see that happen and as brands start to enter more and more into live 66 00:04:58.040 --> 00:05:03.240 audio, the concerns about not censorship, but the concerns about what is actually 67 00:05:03.279 --> 00:05:08.319 being said on the show how that's representing the brand. It doesn't surprise me 68 00:05:08.439 --> 00:05:13.639 that, yeah, there would be now hesitation and second thoughts about utilizing live 69 00:05:13.680 --> 00:05:17.879 audio within brand promotion. I totally agree with you. Most people just aren't 70 00:05:17.920 --> 00:05:23.480 that good live either, even if you're a podcast host like there's just too 71 00:05:23.519 --> 00:05:30.040 many factors into making the live experience a great experience. And so for us 72 00:05:30.079 --> 00:05:34.680 to think as podcasters also like, what am I trying to accomplish by doing 73 00:05:34.720 --> 00:05:39.560 this live instead of in the format that someone can, you know, digestible 74 00:05:39.600 --> 00:05:44.439 at any time? To me it was always a question. This is what 75 00:05:44.480 --> 00:05:47.839 I will say about spotify. They probably have one of the best ways that 76 00:05:47.879 --> 00:05:54.279 you could utilize live if it's built into the APP and automatically becomes an episode 77 00:05:54.319 --> 00:06:00.680 immediately following for an industry like, let's say, sports podcasts, immediate following 78 00:06:00.800 --> 00:06:04.319 or at halftime, or you could bake it in where it makes sense and 79 00:06:04.360 --> 00:06:10.000 you went live right at that moment. But for us as be tob podcasters, 80 00:06:10.040 --> 00:06:14.800 are there really that many times where we should be live? Probably not. 81 00:06:14.879 --> 00:06:18.439 I think live is a great time for community building. Personally, I 82 00:06:18.480 --> 00:06:25.279 don't think I would go the route of okay, like just live content for 83 00:06:25.319 --> 00:06:28.519 the sake of it. I would rather have a podcast format where people can 84 00:06:28.560 --> 00:06:31.439 digest it at any moment. And the second thing I would say is, 85 00:06:31.560 --> 00:06:34.279 if I was going to go live, I would rather host a meet up 86 00:06:34.279 --> 00:06:39.240 and make it more personal than a lot of these APPs did. And so 87 00:06:39.480 --> 00:06:43.319 that's just what was rattling around in my head. Honestly, interested to see 88 00:06:43.319 --> 00:06:47.079 if it works for spotify live audio. There maybe there will be a future 89 00:06:47.120 --> 00:06:49.439 player that figures out a way to do it. But it also does come 90 00:06:49.480 --> 00:06:55.360 down to the host themselves and can they actually operate in a way that that 91 00:06:55.480 --> 00:06:59.319 makes sense live? Okay, I loved how they ended this article, so 92 00:06:59.360 --> 00:07:00.680 I'm just going to read you a quote real quick. They said there are 93 00:07:00.720 --> 00:07:08.079 no clear winners in the live social audio race, only losers and new contenders, 94 00:07:08.079 --> 00:07:12.560 and I thought, Yep, that's absolutely true. The there's no winner 95 00:07:12.600 --> 00:07:15.519 there, and everyone thought clubhouse was a winner. And you just fast forward 96 00:07:15.519 --> 00:07:19.240 a little bit more in time and here we are. So Yep, well, 97 00:07:19.279 --> 00:07:23.600 that sort was brought to you from protocol. Remember, you can always 98 00:07:23.600 --> 00:07:27.160 go to the show notes and find all these stories so you can read and 99 00:07:27.199 --> 00:07:30.120 go into more detailed the second thing I think is we're noting is actually it's 100 00:07:30.160 --> 00:07:33.839 just a press release straight from buzz sprout, but they're talking about how they 101 00:07:33.879 --> 00:07:38.639 just announced buzz sprout ads, and I'll read from their press release here. 102 00:07:38.680 --> 00:07:42.759 Buzz Sprout ads helps podcasts get their shows in front of the right audience of 103 00:07:42.839 --> 00:07:46.120 people who already love listening to podcast and are interested in similar topics. Okay, 104 00:07:46.160 --> 00:07:49.160 the second part of this is what I found interesting. It says it's 105 00:07:49.199 --> 00:07:55.839 a self service platform where any PODCASTER can sign up and buy ads, regardless 106 00:07:55.839 --> 00:07:59.800 of where they host their show. Once a podcaster uploads their promo audio, 107 00:07:59.920 --> 00:08:05.120 it will be immediately matched with optimal audience based on categories and listening preference. 108 00:08:05.639 --> 00:08:11.680 So this is a good opportunity, I think, for be to be podcasters, 109 00:08:11.759 --> 00:08:16.120 you got to be like just advertising on other people shows doesn't I mean 110 00:08:16.160 --> 00:08:22.560 it doesn't necessarily mean you're going to find more listenership, but because the you 111 00:08:22.600 --> 00:08:26.600 could put a hundred dollars into this and it's a way of promoing. I 112 00:08:26.720 --> 00:08:31.279 see this as a pit potential for be to be podcasters to get into adds 113 00:08:31.360 --> 00:08:37.159 at a low, a low level and test some things. What do you 114 00:08:37.200 --> 00:08:45.559 think about ads more broadly? Ryan, specifically, for for be TOB PODCASTS? 115 00:08:45.679 --> 00:08:50.720 I think they're so it's got a largely depend on what industry you're in, 116 00:08:50.799 --> 00:08:54.120 how many competitors are in that industry or how many friends you could consider 117 00:08:54.159 --> 00:09:00.120 in that industry other shows, but I think that this is a pretty if 118 00:09:00.159 --> 00:09:01.639 way to do it. I know of another APP. I think it's overcast. 119 00:09:01.720 --> 00:09:05.759 Is the APP that that you can also buy ad space on, and 120 00:09:05.799 --> 00:09:07.679 I've seen over the years on Reddit people have used it and tested it. 121 00:09:07.759 --> 00:09:13.360 You can actually I think the podcasting subreddit is is a great source of information 122 00:09:13.360 --> 00:09:20.200 for people sharing their experiences buying ads and talking about promotional strategies. It's where 123 00:09:20.200 --> 00:09:22.759 I learned you can submit their actual platforms or you could submit your show to 124 00:09:22.759 --> 00:09:26.240 be featured on the front page. I didn't. I didn't know that the 125 00:09:26.240 --> 00:09:31.279 whole time I was podcasting and I think this is a great way to do 126 00:09:31.320 --> 00:09:35.240 this to target listeners. I probably wouldn't spend a whole ton doing it right 127 00:09:35.240 --> 00:09:41.120 now. I think there are I think there are more high value areas to 128 00:09:41.159 --> 00:09:46.960 advertise in, but if you're if your goal is demand Jin, if your 129 00:09:46.960 --> 00:09:50.000 goal is thought leadership, if your goal is building the audience directly, then 130 00:09:50.039 --> 00:09:56.679 I would say absolutely go for this. Or if your goal is ABM plays 131 00:09:56.200 --> 00:10:00.879 and you need to validate your show by having a listener base, then this 132 00:10:01.000 --> 00:10:03.159 is also something. I don't think this hurts you. I think this is 133 00:10:03.159 --> 00:10:07.039 something that can help you and at best, like yeah, it's a low 134 00:10:07.120 --> 00:10:11.480 cost entry fee into doing it, so, at the very worst it's not 135 00:10:11.519 --> 00:10:16.399 going to kill your budget. I don't think to to give it a shot 136 00:10:16.480 --> 00:10:18.559 and see what you can what you can do with it. And I love 137 00:10:18.600 --> 00:10:24.440 that. There's no there's no you don't have to be on buzz broute to 138 00:10:24.519 --> 00:10:28.080 use this. You can sign up and use their platform without actually hosting your 139 00:10:28.080 --> 00:10:35.440 podcast on busprout. It's interesting to watch so many of these hosting platforms getting 140 00:10:35.480 --> 00:10:39.240 into ads and how they do it. I love what you just mentioned there. 141 00:10:39.240 --> 00:10:41.399 That makes this a little bit unique and I have to say also, 142 00:10:41.639 --> 00:10:45.559 having started podcasting around when you did, back two thousand and fifteen, two 143 00:10:45.559 --> 00:10:50.120 thousand and sixteen, seeing the rise of like dynamic ads and some of these 144 00:10:50.200 --> 00:10:56.600 companies, you're just like mind blown at how far podcasting has come and how 145 00:10:56.600 --> 00:11:00.000 easy some of this stuff is getting, even the fact that we're recording on 146 00:11:00.080 --> 00:11:03.320 riverside right now, the convenience of this entire recording process, I'm like, 147 00:11:03.360 --> 00:11:07.840 oh my gosh, it's such a good year to be a podcaster and the 148 00:11:07.840 --> 00:11:13.200 future is so bright for this as a medium because you can now monetize easier 149 00:11:13.200 --> 00:11:16.960 than ever, you can record easier than ever, and again, this would 150 00:11:16.960 --> 00:11:20.200 be my only push back, because it's easier than ever. If you're going 151 00:11:20.240 --> 00:11:26.240 to go this route of advertising this way, don't be another interview sales show 152 00:11:26.279 --> 00:11:31.960 marketing and on another interview sales show, like if you are have no differentiator, 153 00:11:33.080 --> 00:11:35.600 I don't think you're going to see a lot of success doing this because 154 00:11:35.600 --> 00:11:39.480 people are already spending their time listening to another show that might be doing the 155 00:11:39.519 --> 00:11:43.759 exact same thing as you. So just make sure you differentiate and give people 156 00:11:43.840 --> 00:11:48.200 a reason why they should listen. that. That's me, becomes a very 157 00:11:48.240 --> 00:11:54.279 important conversation in this you got to find the right audience and where they hang 158 00:11:54.320 --> 00:11:58.039 out, and then you have to tell them why they should continue to get 159 00:11:58.080 --> 00:12:01.519 come over and hang out with you. We see this in every form of 160 00:12:01.559 --> 00:12:07.000 marketing currently but the the lower the barrier the entry, the barrier to entry, 161 00:12:07.480 --> 00:12:11.879 the more creative and the more unique your presence has to be in order 162 00:12:11.960 --> 00:12:15.039 to make a difference. That's just going to be the reality. It is 163 00:12:15.039 --> 00:12:18.000 easier to access, which means that you need to be that much more intentional 164 00:12:18.039 --> 00:12:22.240 about how you use the access that you have. Final story here in the 165 00:12:22.240 --> 00:12:28.879 news. Crooked Media Bruise more than just podcasts with new branded coffee line. 166 00:12:28.919 --> 00:12:31.799 This is from Ad Week. Okay, I don't care about who crooked media 167 00:12:31.879 --> 00:12:37.240 is. You can have your opinions on them as a podcasting as a media 168 00:12:37.320 --> 00:12:43.080 company, but I thought this was fun in that the idea of incentivizing listeners 169 00:12:43.080 --> 00:12:48.240 with branded products and thinking about let's say you have an audience that you've built 170 00:12:48.279 --> 00:12:56.799 around your be tobe show. You can do things with merch that actually create 171 00:12:56.840 --> 00:13:01.039 this this feeling of like I'm a part of something bigger and maybe it's a 172 00:13:01.039 --> 00:13:05.600 phrase that you're all bought in on and you create shirts around that phrase merch 173 00:13:05.720 --> 00:13:07.840 in some way. But I thought a coffee line, it's pretty unique. 174 00:13:07.919 --> 00:13:11.840 It's different than what most people go for. They've chosen this unique out their 175 00:13:11.840 --> 00:13:16.360 branding is magnificent and I thought it just really pops. But Ryan, what 176 00:13:16.399 --> 00:13:22.080 do you think about the idea of merch maybe more broadly coffee, very specific, 177 00:13:22.120 --> 00:13:28.000 but attaching some form of merch and personalized product to a show? So 178 00:13:28.159 --> 00:13:33.840 I love the idea. How however, I think that implementing it without without 179 00:13:33.879 --> 00:13:37.519 doing the work of identifying your audience and getting to know your audience and connecting 180 00:13:37.600 --> 00:13:39.759 with your audience, that's where it's very clear that you're just trying to get 181 00:13:39.799 --> 00:13:43.600 money out of them rather than give them something more for their what they're doing. 182 00:13:43.639 --> 00:13:48.440 And this is we talked about owned audiences versus paid audiences, but this 183 00:13:48.519 --> 00:13:52.279 is this is something that I do believe that, because podcasting and analytics aren't 184 00:13:52.360 --> 00:13:56.799 to the point that we can very clearly identify listeners right now, it it 185 00:13:56.879 --> 00:14:01.080 is always important for podcasters to be of any in any space, be to 186 00:14:01.159 --> 00:14:07.600 be BBC, general podcasting, for any audience, to figure out how you 187 00:14:07.639 --> 00:14:11.279 can connect with your audience and give them enough value that they're willing, like 188 00:14:11.320 --> 00:14:16.039 connect them via community get interact with them actively, and whether that's you have 189 00:14:16.080 --> 00:14:20.320 a community manager that does it or you as the host, you do it 190 00:14:20.360 --> 00:14:22.360 as well, and I think it's more important at the beginning of that process 191 00:14:22.399 --> 00:14:26.519 for the host to but in doing that you can actually find out that, 192 00:14:26.600 --> 00:14:33.399 oh, your audience loves coffee, your audience loves this kind of or I 193 00:14:33.440 --> 00:14:35.480 see this meme or this joke about something that was said on the show all 194 00:14:35.519 --> 00:14:39.519 the time and and you can create these limited run experiences to hey, we're 195 00:14:39.559 --> 00:14:43.840 doing this one off shirt because everyone seems to love this phrase that was said 196 00:14:43.919 --> 00:14:46.600 or or this joke that we've said. We want to we we want your 197 00:14:46.639 --> 00:14:50.120 feedback. What do you what would you want to see on this shirt? 198 00:14:50.200 --> 00:14:54.879 Or, you know, giving them some say gives them the way to feeling 199 00:14:54.919 --> 00:14:58.320 like they're a part of something more. Yeah, but if you just release 200 00:14:58.399 --> 00:15:03.440 what you think is okay to release without doing that kind of research within the 201 00:15:03.480 --> 00:15:09.240 podcasting world, then I do think audiences will see through that very clearly and 202 00:15:09.360 --> 00:15:16.519 very easily. HMM. I think if I was starting a show from scratch 203 00:15:16.559 --> 00:15:18.600 and if you're in like the first five or six episodes, you could probably 204 00:15:18.639 --> 00:15:24.759 still do this pretty easily, but I would bake it into my content strategy, 205 00:15:24.840 --> 00:15:26.480 the way I'm thinking about the show that I would have. This is 206 00:15:26.480 --> 00:15:31.639 funny because we talked about live as a dying thing. But all, if 207 00:15:31.679 --> 00:15:35.200 you do it right, some form of meet up early on in your show 208 00:15:35.200 --> 00:15:41.320 and doing that consistently is so valuable to understanding who's actually listening. And even 209 00:15:41.360 --> 00:15:46.080 if you only had a group of like ten to fifteen people who joined you 210 00:15:46.120 --> 00:15:50.039 on that call, the conversations you have and what could be birth there for 211 00:15:50.279 --> 00:15:52.879 what types of content you create in the future. And if you go and 212 00:15:54.000 --> 00:15:56.879 land on Merch or something bigger like that, awesome. But it starts hyper 213 00:15:56.919 --> 00:16:03.320 personal. You actually know who is engaged and then you grow from their community, 214 00:16:03.399 --> 00:16:11.240 then drives podcast. PODCAST and community both then collectively decide what's the thing 215 00:16:11.279 --> 00:16:15.039 we put out. So you don't come out with a coffee line as you're 216 00:16:15.039 --> 00:16:18.120 starting your podcast, like those things don't happen in tandem. You actually know 217 00:16:18.159 --> 00:16:22.840 who's listening and then you go, okay, awesome, let's tailor this experience 218 00:16:22.919 --> 00:16:29.120 to them and actually enhance their experience because we were here high as personalized as 219 00:16:29.120 --> 00:16:30.559 we could be. Right, and it works both ways. If you have 220 00:16:30.600 --> 00:16:34.120 a product line that has a strong community around it, you can also create 221 00:16:34.159 --> 00:16:40.440 a podcast that serves that specific community too. I mean that's my club exists 222 00:16:40.440 --> 00:16:42.960 that way in some way, shape or form and that we're not. I 223 00:16:42.960 --> 00:16:48.399 don't know how any strategy behind monetizing my club. I don't think there is 224 00:16:48.399 --> 00:16:52.120 one. I think this exists to specifically serve our podcasters that that we work 225 00:16:52.159 --> 00:16:56.440 with and and so this is something of we have a community of podcaster. 226 00:16:56.519 --> 00:17:00.519 So we wanted to create something that served that community of podcasters from sleepfish. 227 00:17:00.559 --> 00:17:04.519 That that's important and I think you can do that with the services and products 228 00:17:04.559 --> 00:17:10.599 that you offer as a company to so I this is a great way to 229 00:17:10.640 --> 00:17:15.880 monetize and this is a great way to think about monetizing, because podcasting as 230 00:17:15.920 --> 00:17:22.000 in and of itself is not as directly like. The monetization route for podcasting 231 00:17:22.000 --> 00:17:26.880 directly is not as high value as it is on other platforms, but the 232 00:17:26.960 --> 00:17:30.599 monetization opportunities are almost endless. You just have to you just have to utilize 233 00:17:30.640 --> 00:17:36.200 them and pivot correctly. Yep, I think having some form of just to 234 00:17:36.200 --> 00:17:38.400 talk merch or second two or something along those lines. You can be creative. 235 00:17:38.400 --> 00:17:41.000 Doesn't just have to be a shirt. People do all sorts of stuff, 236 00:17:41.079 --> 00:17:48.960 but it does if you have some loyalty, some loyalty to the show. 237 00:17:48.960 --> 00:17:52.000 It gives people a way to like feel more connected. So if you've 238 00:17:52.039 --> 00:17:55.799 been around for a while and you do have some sort of audience and you 239 00:17:55.839 --> 00:17:59.519 could even pull them to find like what they might be interested in having a 240 00:17:59.519 --> 00:18:03.640 limited run of something. To me, I think it is just a worthwhile 241 00:18:03.640 --> 00:18:07.799 way of thanking your audience for being there and being like hey, you are 242 00:18:07.839 --> 00:18:14.519 attached to something bigger. I've bought products from shows that I listened to and 243 00:18:14.960 --> 00:18:17.920 it's just a fun way of I maybe I would put it behind me or 244 00:18:17.920 --> 00:18:21.079 something on my wall, like I it's it's a way that it can endear 245 00:18:21.319 --> 00:18:26.680 the audience and so I love this as a play and coffee was very unique. 246 00:18:26.759 --> 00:18:30.920 So any thoughts on creative merch ideas, Ryan, like something you want 247 00:18:30.960 --> 00:18:33.799 to see? Coffee is a is a fun one, but I was like 248 00:18:33.839 --> 00:18:36.119 trying to think. Is like what would I do? That's just like hyper 249 00:18:36.200 --> 00:18:38.559 unique. I don't know that I have one that immediately comes to mind. 250 00:18:38.759 --> 00:18:42.279 Yeah, that I mean. It just it depends on what your audience is. 251 00:18:42.319 --> 00:18:48.680 I could see I could see custom decals on on microphones or something, 252 00:18:48.720 --> 00:18:52.599 if you if you're someone that serves podcasters, for example, or I would 253 00:18:52.640 --> 00:18:57.000 love to see. I personally will always love t shirts most of the t 254 00:18:57.119 --> 00:19:00.920 shirts I have are ones that were gifted to me, so I legit. 255 00:19:02.200 --> 00:19:04.119 I love like the T shirt I'm wearing right now is one that was gifted 256 00:19:04.160 --> 00:19:07.839 to me by my wife, so it's like this is I always love receiving 257 00:19:07.839 --> 00:19:15.000 that and and growing my my walking billboard collection it that. That is something 258 00:19:15.039 --> 00:19:18.319 that's really cool to me and I did want to. I actually wanted to 259 00:19:18.680 --> 00:19:21.400 make sure I shared this. I don't want to forget it, but there's 260 00:19:21.400 --> 00:19:22.880 a show. I forget which one it is, but there's a show that 261 00:19:23.519 --> 00:19:27.720 the way they engage with their community is they it's a debate show and after 262 00:19:27.880 --> 00:19:32.200 and at the end of every show they encourage listeners to go and fill out 263 00:19:32.200 --> 00:19:36.440 a form that basically says who did who, which of the debater ors swayed 264 00:19:36.480 --> 00:19:40.759 your opinion the most, and then that actually, that data is how they 265 00:19:40.839 --> 00:19:45.720 determine who won the last episode's debate. Is who not who made you believe 266 00:19:45.759 --> 00:19:49.319 them, but rather who gave you the most convincing or had the most convincing 267 00:19:49.400 --> 00:19:52.119 arguments. It may even be that I disagree with them, but I believe 268 00:19:52.160 --> 00:19:56.680 that they argued better for their position than the person who agree with me. 269 00:19:56.279 --> 00:20:02.640 That's a great way to identify and connect with listeners and those are the kinds 270 00:20:02.640 --> 00:20:07.039 of things that I that I really, really love to see and I think 271 00:20:07.160 --> 00:20:11.279 those can that. I hope that can spark some ideas for for listeners here 272 00:20:11.279 --> 00:20:15.160 as well. But I I don't have any like specific big march. I 273 00:20:15.279 --> 00:20:18.799 just if you guys want to make shirts and send them to me, I'm 274 00:20:18.799 --> 00:20:22.119 okay with that. that. You can find me on linkedin or email me. 275 00:20:22.160 --> 00:20:26.880 I'm all about it, all right, I'm good. I love it. 276 00:20:26.920 --> 00:20:29.279 I think if I was going to go and I'm with you on the 277 00:20:29.279 --> 00:20:33.279 shirts like that's it's a good one. I love artwork, so if there 278 00:20:33.359 --> 00:20:36.480 was some way of doing like custom art that I could put on my wall 279 00:20:36.559 --> 00:20:40.160 that somehow tied back to the show, I would be all in to see 280 00:20:40.200 --> 00:20:44.480 someone do a limited run of that and you could whether it was like you 281 00:20:44.519 --> 00:20:48.400 could go kind of more cheesy, like quote style, but if you could 282 00:20:48.400 --> 00:20:52.920 pull in more art and like, I think there's something there that, at 283 00:20:52.000 --> 00:20:56.400 least for me personally, something I can hang on my wall, is something 284 00:20:56.680 --> 00:21:02.319 I like. Okay, I want to take us to our member highlight and 285 00:21:02.400 --> 00:21:07.440 keep this thing rolling. Accreditation conversations by we've education. It's a podcast for 286 00:21:07.880 --> 00:21:15.480 higher education leaders that are specifically seeking to collaborate insights and a and the accreditation 287 00:21:15.480 --> 00:21:18.279 process. So I'll just read you the brief description of the show. Episodes 288 00:21:18.319 --> 00:21:25.599 feature conversations from education colleagues about all things institutional effectiveness. So you're going to 289 00:21:25.599 --> 00:21:30.480 hear about higher education, accreditation and assessment, data analysis and software and the 290 00:21:30.559 --> 00:21:37.039 Labor of love that is creating narratives, not just processes. Here's what I 291 00:21:37.079 --> 00:21:40.680 like about this. I am so outside of the world of accreditation. I 292 00:21:40.720 --> 00:21:44.920 am very much outside of the world of education and higher education, but they 293 00:21:44.960 --> 00:21:52.079 had super welldone show notes and I want to commend them on that. That's 294 00:21:52.319 --> 00:21:56.319 it's that in itself to use their own language as a Labor of love, 295 00:21:56.359 --> 00:22:00.440 and I also thought their artwork it was fun and bright, so I like 296 00:22:00.559 --> 00:22:04.240 that. And then the depth of insights. They're not this is not like 297 00:22:04.359 --> 00:22:08.559 for anybody to listen to. They're intentionally in the weeds on accreditation. It's 298 00:22:08.640 --> 00:22:14.440 good niche work if you actually need to know this information. And so those 299 00:22:14.440 --> 00:22:17.880 would be the three things that stood out to me about accreditation conversations. I 300 00:22:17.880 --> 00:22:23.319 want to say thank you to we've education and those over at the pod for 301 00:22:23.400 --> 00:22:29.359 being part of our my club community and we're really appreciative. there. Thanks 302 00:22:29.400 --> 00:22:33.640 for being part and I wish you the best of luck with your show because 303 00:22:33.640 --> 00:22:37.640 I know you're only like six episodes in at this point. You're early in 304 00:22:37.680 --> 00:22:42.160 the journey, but man, keep it up and I believe with time you 305 00:22:42.200 --> 00:22:47.039 just learned so much in podcasting. You it is. The gold is in 306 00:22:47.119 --> 00:22:49.559 sticking with it. I will just say that. All right, we'll wrap 307 00:22:49.640 --> 00:22:53.400 up, Ryan, with a question from our might club community, and the 308 00:22:53.480 --> 00:23:00.359 question today post to us is where do I find great guests for my show? 309 00:23:00.400 --> 00:23:03.119 And before we started and hit record, you and I were talking about 310 00:23:03.119 --> 00:23:06.240 it kind of does depend on what the goal of your show is. Some 311 00:23:06.279 --> 00:23:10.400 people here are your in more of a content based networking frame of mind about 312 00:23:10.440 --> 00:23:12.440 your podcast. Others are going, I want to be a thought leader. 313 00:23:12.480 --> 00:23:18.319 That's going to drastically determine where you find guests for your show. What immediately 314 00:23:18.359 --> 00:23:22.359 comes to your mind, Ryan, with the clients you work with and the 315 00:23:22.359 --> 00:23:26.480 way you think about finding great guests? Yeah, I so. The first 316 00:23:26.480 --> 00:23:30.640 thing I would say is if you already have guests that have lined up, 317 00:23:30.640 --> 00:23:33.480 are guests that you've talked with in the past. You can always ask them. 318 00:23:33.480 --> 00:23:37.480 Hey, we're looking for some more amazing guests in this area and you 319 00:23:37.480 --> 00:23:38.599 you already are in this area, but I'd love to know. Do you 320 00:23:38.680 --> 00:23:41.960 have any connections, anyone that you think would make a great guest for the 321 00:23:41.960 --> 00:23:45.039 show? We'd loved having you on and I trust your judgment, for example, 322 00:23:45.160 --> 00:23:48.160 or, and you know I would trust a recommendation from you. That's 323 00:23:48.200 --> 00:23:53.200 a great way because word of mouth always helps and that creates a connection and 324 00:23:53.319 --> 00:23:56.920 builds a bridge to so that that's actually one of the first things that comes 325 00:23:56.960 --> 00:24:02.000 to my mind. But yeah, it largely depends ends on what your goal 326 00:24:02.160 --> 00:24:04.799 is. I will say if your goal is demand Jin and just audience growth 327 00:24:04.799 --> 00:24:08.880 in general, just trying to get a guest that already has a platform isn't 328 00:24:08.960 --> 00:24:12.880 going to do a whole lot for you in the audient door department to do. 329 00:24:12.960 --> 00:24:15.599 It's not it's going to be cool and then you're going to feel neat 330 00:24:15.680 --> 00:24:18.640 for a minute, but it's not. Their audience isn't going to flock to 331 00:24:18.640 --> 00:24:22.599 your show, or they might for that one episode, which usually doesn't even 332 00:24:22.640 --> 00:24:26.440 happen that much, and then they they dip because they were there for the 333 00:24:26.519 --> 00:24:30.960 for the guests. They weren't there for the show and they weren't there for 334 00:24:32.039 --> 00:24:37.039 the content itself, and so I would say the biggest thing is determine what 335 00:24:37.079 --> 00:24:41.519 your goal for a guest is and then think about where that guest might actually 336 00:24:41.559 --> 00:24:45.559 be or or how to find that kind of guest. If you are using 337 00:24:45.599 --> 00:24:48.839 it for an ABM play, then your guest list might come from your sales 338 00:24:48.880 --> 00:24:52.920 prospects, and which case you want to loop in your sales team and work 339 00:24:52.960 --> 00:24:56.119 with them to identify good leads, because the last thing you also want to 340 00:24:56.160 --> 00:25:02.200 do is double up the sales efforts and podcasting efforts and make it, you 341 00:25:02.240 --> 00:25:07.519 know, really time those that messaging at the wrong time and actually scare them 342 00:25:07.559 --> 00:25:11.640 away from both, from both opportunities. And so I would say that those 343 00:25:11.680 --> 00:25:14.319 are the first things that I that come to mind as I talked about that. 344 00:25:15.759 --> 00:25:18.920 I if you're going for more of a build an audience play, there 345 00:25:19.119 --> 00:25:23.680 is something to be said about talking to people that just know their content really 346 00:25:23.680 --> 00:25:26.319 well. So what I mean is not just the best selling authors, but 347 00:25:26.359 --> 00:25:30.519 those that can go really deep on a topic. You can build an audience 348 00:25:30.559 --> 00:25:33.559 there because they just know their content so well. And someone might be tuning 349 00:25:33.599 --> 00:25:37.480 in actually because of the expertise. You also need to have and develop your 350 00:25:37.559 --> 00:25:41.400 point of view. The more that you do that and you actually have your 351 00:25:41.440 --> 00:25:44.960 that is what gross thought leadership is point of view, and obviously there's more 352 00:25:45.039 --> 00:25:48.039 facets to that, but that's a key one. They actually have to know 353 00:25:48.079 --> 00:25:49.759 what you believe on something and what you think about it. You have to 354 00:25:49.799 --> 00:25:53.480 be a guide. So, but if I was doing just interviews, we're 355 00:25:53.480 --> 00:25:57.680 talking just getting guests. I look for authors. I would also look at 356 00:25:57.680 --> 00:26:03.359 conferences and look at the topics that are covered by the people that are speaking 357 00:26:03.359 --> 00:26:06.640 and then, if you can find their talk, listen to their talk, 358 00:26:06.680 --> 00:26:08.799 find one point in their talk that you really enjoyed and say, I want 359 00:26:08.839 --> 00:26:11.759 to go really deep on this, because you didn't have enough time to go 360 00:26:12.119 --> 00:26:17.160 you know, and that gives you a topic to talk to them about. 361 00:26:17.359 --> 00:26:19.279 They've already been thinking about it and you're asking them to go deeper. So 362 00:26:19.319 --> 00:26:22.720 you're going to give away original content. It's not just what they said at 363 00:26:22.759 --> 00:26:27.559 the conference. You don't you don't want to make someone regurgitate the exact same 364 00:26:27.559 --> 00:26:30.920 thing they did somewhere else. If you can get them in, ask some 365 00:26:32.079 --> 00:26:37.359 unique questions like that's that's also creates a better show. And then obviously linkedin. 366 00:26:37.480 --> 00:26:40.480 Like linkedin is a great place to just connect with people if you see 367 00:26:40.519 --> 00:26:45.279 posts that you are interested in and you can just even comment. I do 368 00:26:45.319 --> 00:26:48.240 this all the time. DM them say I really liked this post, linked 369 00:26:48.240 --> 00:26:52.880 to the post and there you go. But again, in content based networking 370 00:26:52.960 --> 00:26:55.759 or in an ABM play, a lot of those people may not be active 371 00:26:55.799 --> 00:27:00.480 on Linkedin. If they're like your sales team is targeting these AC counts and 372 00:27:00.480 --> 00:27:03.920 you're going like, Oh, we'd love to have someone from them. Like 373 00:27:03.400 --> 00:27:07.079 a lot of those people searchling dinners. They still think of it as like 374 00:27:07.119 --> 00:27:11.000 this is where I post my resume and then I'm not over there most of 375 00:27:11.039 --> 00:27:14.160 the time. So that's always an interesting hurdle that you kind of got to 376 00:27:14.359 --> 00:27:17.759 get used to. Well, and I would I would add two things here 377 00:27:18.039 --> 00:27:22.000 adding, yes, ending what you just shared. I think the other side 378 00:27:22.000 --> 00:27:26.039 of that is looking at press releases within your industry and within your target market, 379 00:27:26.039 --> 00:27:29.640 because if those people aren't posting on Linkedin, maybe they have a quote 380 00:27:29.640 --> 00:27:33.720 in a press release or maybe they led something in their company and there and 381 00:27:33.759 --> 00:27:36.839 they just announce something in which case you still have some relevant way to reach 382 00:27:36.880 --> 00:27:41.160 out to them because they're doing something impactful. There's a there's a connection point 383 00:27:41.200 --> 00:27:44.079 there and I think you may still find that that person is in a great 384 00:27:44.119 --> 00:27:47.440 interviewee, that that may still be the case, but that's what the pre 385 00:27:47.519 --> 00:27:52.319 interview that we encourage so much is is for, is identifying those matches and 386 00:27:52.359 --> 00:27:56.839 those those but those potential misfires. So that would be number one. Number 387 00:27:56.839 --> 00:28:00.400 two, and this one surprised me, and I that the majority of people 388 00:28:00.440 --> 00:28:03.920 I've talked to didn't think of it this way, but this is something I 389 00:28:03.960 --> 00:28:07.640 just kind of started doing, not just looking at the conferences the guest lists 390 00:28:07.720 --> 00:28:14.519 and and the speakers and topics, but actually creating a like bringing some podcasting 391 00:28:14.559 --> 00:28:18.240 equipment with you to trade shows and gatherings that you go to and as you 392 00:28:18.240 --> 00:28:22.519 build relationships with people, literally say hey, would you have any I've had 393 00:28:22.519 --> 00:28:25.240 a this has been an amazing conversation. Would you have any interest in like, 394 00:28:25.359 --> 00:28:27.680 I'd love to talk further with this about with you on my podcast, 395 00:28:27.720 --> 00:28:32.000 and I actually brought some stuff with me here or just in case I ran 396 00:28:32.119 --> 00:28:37.359 and I'm always prepared as a podcaster and you may find some amazing conversations and 397 00:28:37.400 --> 00:28:41.440 opportunities right then in there and you can create a you know, get a 398 00:28:41.920 --> 00:28:45.279 small Pelican case. It's a just a hard case with foam that's packed in 399 00:28:45.359 --> 00:28:48.319 and you can grab a couple cheap microphones and and a little recorder that you 400 00:28:48.359 --> 00:28:53.240 can take with you and and easily set up something very quickly, and I 401 00:28:53.400 --> 00:28:59.799 absolutely love the idea of doing that and I think that's another great way to 402 00:28:59.799 --> 00:29:02.960 find great guests and you don't have to worry about scheduling or booking. You 403 00:29:03.000 --> 00:29:07.279 just have to make some time and dedicate some time to that, or potential 404 00:29:07.279 --> 00:29:08.720 time to that, while you're at a trade show and while you're at these 405 00:29:08.759 --> 00:29:12.200 events. And Yeah, that can lead to some that. Some of the 406 00:29:12.240 --> 00:29:18.680 best episodes of my personal podcast have come from those spontaneous meetings and in person 407 00:29:18.720 --> 00:29:22.160 events. I like that and I know we've done that in the past. 408 00:29:22.319 --> 00:29:26.599 We've tested that even with be to be growth and we got some great live 409 00:29:26.640 --> 00:29:32.279 conversations. I love in person interviews and conversations. There's a different energy when 410 00:29:32.279 --> 00:29:36.480 you're sitting in the same space. So I like that we're bringing that as 411 00:29:36.519 --> 00:29:38.880 an option. Well, Ryan, it's been so fun to have you here 412 00:29:38.920 --> 00:29:44.559 on the podcast with us. Thanks for Stopping Buy Mike Club and if you 413 00:29:44.599 --> 00:29:48.039 want to connect with Ryan or myself, you can do that over on Linkedin. 414 00:29:48.200 --> 00:29:51.839 We're active over there. We'd love to hear from you and chat with 415 00:29:51.839 --> 00:29:55.480 you. If you have questions and you want us to answer in a future 416 00:29:55.559 --> 00:29:59.839 episode, feel free to drop a question in my club at any time and 417 00:30:00.000 --> 00:30:02.960 you can get answers from the entire community, not just the podcast, which 418 00:30:02.960 --> 00:30:07.759 is fantastic. So always worthwhile to to engage over in the linkedin group. 419 00:30:07.799 --> 00:30:11.640 All right, we'll be back real soon with another episode. Ryan, thanks 420 00:30:11.680 --> 00:30:14.599 again for being on my club today. Thank you.